My Death in Life

An honest question that we quickly started taking apart. We agreed with a general and simple answer: "no". From there we dissected our general and simple response into more particular and complex components. Our foundation seemed to come from John 10:29, although that verse was not explicitly brought up in conversation. But as we discussed and brought up several examples from experience we came to focus around the Parable of the Sower (Matt 13:3-17). We talked about how the Gospel can have many affects in many different circumstances and can appear in people's lives differently but ultimately time (or the end of time) will tell if it really took root. We were in agreement that this seemed to explain not only the question at hand but also the various stories that we had experienced from relationships in our own lives.

From here we took a little meta turn (my favorite kind) and started asking questions like "how can you know if someone is saved?" and "what does that look like?" This was started by making the connection from the Parable of the Sower to passages where Jesus dismisses those that claim to know him (Matt 7:21-23). There will be some who genuinely believe in their salvation but ultimately did not know Christ. Rather than stressing the importance of knowing Christ from this, we stressed the somber call to reflect on if we truly know Jesus. We did not discuss much of the assurance of salvation (theme of the night: "we'll get to that another time") but instead talked more about wading through spiritual doubt or "[working] out your own faith with fear and trembling" (Phil 2:12). What was brought up in discussion is that it is truly difficult to know for certain what God's line of demarcation is for who's in and who's out. Romans 10:9-11 was brought up, but although it tells us about confession and belief being basic components of salvation, it is in the belief part that is hard to point to a specific level or mark that qualifies for salvation (James 2:19 was briefly mentioned). We intended to return to a more in-depth look at Romans 10 but we went off on a tangent that took up the rest of our time.

I must confess, I feel that I directed the conversation down our last tangent, where we stayed until we concluded the discussion. When it comes to issues about spiritual doubt, assurance of salvation, and the inter-connections of these topics being discussed within a spiritual community, I cannot help but bring up the church and its role to connect all these things. I have a lot of opinions about church, as much as anyone my age who has grown up in the church. So the topic turned to the church's role in helping develop and disciple people through these topics. Of course, much was said off-the-cuff about certain pastors or models or churches we agree with, but it all revolved around how much impact church leadership has on reaching people and then aiding in spiritual growth. We started to scratch the surface of what discipleship looks like (looking to another and adopting language, ideas, disciplines, etc, etc for spiritual growth) but we did not get to the point of defining discipleship full on but stayed at the influence different models, preaching styles, and leaders have on an individual's faith. In this we ultimately ended on the desire to ultimately model Jesus and be known as a disciple of Him (not Piper or Driscoll or Dodge or Paul or Apollos).

Topics that were briefly touched on and consented for future topics: predestination (oy vey), discipleship, spiritual gifts, women in the church (specifically pastoral ministry), demons, ecclesiology-church (models/unity).